Curse

Weeping Wind · Mar 21, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Is this already done in HA? Seach is down at the moment to I thought I'd ask.

I mean 6 Echo Obsidian spikes would deal a hell of alot of damage. There other 2 could be monks with obvious Prot and Heal. This probably couldnt hold HoH but would be an interesting build.

Anyway, is this already done and if not doesnt it work?

Cheers
Weeping

Yanman.be · Mar 21, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

i think 6 spikers would be too much, 5x 100ish dmg is enough...maybe afterspike with stone daggers or stoning

also, why would you echo it? if you use arcane echo, you'll use too much energy, if you're using the elite echo, then you lose your glyph of energy, wich is much better imo...obs flame recharges in 5 seconds, wich is fast enough to recharge for spikes

Weeping Wind · Mar 21, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

My mistake. I didnt know the stats on the skill

So it would be possible to carry this out in HA if you got the guys?

Weeping

Yanman.be · Mar 21, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

pure obs flame is not that great...
rather a 3-monk backline,
shatter delusions mesmer,
2 obs flame ele
air ele,
and a necro blood spike

Weeping Wind · Mar 21, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

But thats rather strange when you can have a straight forward 5 man Obsidian Flame spike? If you have 3 Monks each with Ageis and other heals that would cover you for the good 5 seconds recharge and you could hit another guy. Instead of taking only 2 OF spikers only doing 200 on their spike.

It just makes logical sense to take 5 and hit them harder. I mean a Necro isnt going to hit the 100 damage that a OF would.

Weeping

JR · Mar 21, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Obs Flame spike was pretty massive in tombs a few months ago, much like Necro Spike is now. I don't really know why it died out, it is a decent spike.

5x 16 Earth Obs Flames = 590 damage. Exactly the right amount to drop someone not running a superior, and with a +60 health weapon set, morale aside.

On top of that you can have mass ward spam, which is great for countering IWAY. Use Glyph of Energy every other spike to counter exhaustion, and go E/Me with Mantra of Resolve, Drain Enchantment, and maybe Inspired Hex.

art_ · Mar 21, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Yeah i often run with a guy who does Obsidian Spike still in HA. Its one of the most successful spikes i've ran. 5 is all you need really.

Oh, and OF has like a 5 second recharge. No need for this echoing nonsense.

JR · Mar 21, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Waters

spike will be there but 2 monks backline will get destroyed so against a 1/2 ass smart team it would lose

5 Spikers, 3 Monks = 8 Players.

Am I missing something here?

icemonkey · Mar 21, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

geo spike is overall weak. its slow, its exhausting, and one dimensional. its all squishies. You don't want your spike to be one dimensional, or you dont want your characters to be so one dimensional. This is the reason for a mixed spike. Also with mix spike you can actually have an elite help you with more than just the spike.

if you run 1/2 ranger 1/2 air 1 earth and 1 pp/shatter 1/0 blood necros.
you can get a lot more stuff into the build making it much more robust.

-air eles can EASILY bring high quality run skills, gale, blinding flash etc.

-ranger is a good spirit hunter, and does not need orders to contribute to spike. Can pack an interrupt, frozen soil, and oath shot fertile to hold with.

-you only need one earth ele to throw the wards down and drop a high damage oflame

-blood necro is a good spiek with a good follow up in vamp gaze and their elite is open for bip or well of power or martyr or whatever. also can easily pack a br

pp/shatter mesmer is a great spiker, he can do some serious damage, but their bar is pretty full and cannot fit much more than 1 or 2 extra skills. He can also fake a spike on someone to distract an infuser.

so basically a geo spike is the same as an all air spike. Yeah its still possible but there are better options and thats why you don't see it in halls

art_ · Mar 21, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

-air eles can EASILY bring high quality run skills, gale, blinding flash etc.

Id rather have a load of wards than blinding flashes. The main pressure build you fight in HA is IWAY and wards = fun vs IWAY. Not to mention the OF ignores Armor, and if you get them to bunch up (which they always do, they're melee duh) you can eq, as them xDD

Quote:

-ranger is a good spirit hunter, and does not need orders to contribute to spike. Can pack an interrupt, frozen soil, and oath shot fertile to hold with.

Yup i agree Earth spike isn't such a great holding build. You can run Monk secondaries but with a 2 second cast its just asking to be interrupted. Best to go e/me with resolve or conc.

Quote:

-you only need one earth ele to throw the wards down and drop a high damage oflame

A mixed spike is superior, in most respects, but because of the difference in cast times attack times etc, its difficult to perfect timing-wise (in comparison to earth spike)

Quote:

-blood necro is a good spiek with a good follow up in vamp gaze and their elite is open for bip or well of power or martyr or whatever. also can easily pack a br

Blood spike is very slow. Its difficult to lose to it if you have a semi-decent infuser. Defensively its awesome, thats undeniable. Just don't let them cap the altar

Quote:

so basically a geo spike is the same as an all air spike. Yeah its still possible but there are better options and thats why you don't see it in halls

No earth spike has way better defensive options than air spike. You don't see it in halls because its not currently fotm, its still very much a viable build.

tomcruisejr · Mar 21, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

we used to face obsidian spike months ago. it used to be an iway-hate build along with many others

post patch, builds made "unplayable" by iway are starting to come out.

Mage Henchnem · Mar 21, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Ob flame is a great spike but, I agree with the person earlier that said that mixed is better, the problem with it mainly is yes all soft targets, and you loose a lot of diversity, throw a ranger in there with a few spirits,and they can also spike, a blood spiker that can back up the eles with blood rit or bip, a mes with pp/shatter, yeah I think thats about a cookie cutter of a nice balanced spike.

It will have a lot more holding power, as well as be able to support itself better against a variety of counters.

As far as coordination of the spike, yes it does get a little more difficult, but as long as you can maintain good communication and have competant players that can adjust for things like migrane and QZ, you should be fine. I wouldnt say it is built to hold as much as a necro spike might be, but it will do a lot better with spirits and whatnot then a pure ele spike.

icemonkey · Mar 21, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

art...you didn't even get what i posted

I was talking about individual spikers on a mixed spike team not blood or air spike in general.

dual attunement blinding flash is better than wards against a warrior heavy team

there are timing issues and you will need an off spike on some characters to spike at a decent speed, but if you are above a 10th grade reading level i am confidant you can figure it out

art_ · Mar 21, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

art...you didn't even get what i posted

I was talking about individual spikers on a mixed spike team not blood or air spike in general.

Oops, yeah I agree that mixed spike is better. I just wanted to point out generally though that such spikes have weaknesses which are just as clear as Earth spike.

Quote:

dual attunement blinding flash is better than wards against a warrior heavy team

Maybe, but blind is a condition which will be removed every 10 seconds with martyr when you face the most common warrior-heavy build, IWAY. Wards can't be removed, and if you know how to kite single or dual-warrior teams won't be able to do anything with foes + melee down. ^^

Mage Henchnem · Mar 21, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I agree 100%, I would rather have 1 ele dropping wards that last 15 to 20 secs to kite through that effect everyone and cant be removed, and also work as snares in relic runs, then having a 10 energy spell cast on 1 target that only lasts for 10 seconds and can easily be removed. especially when your talking about fighting 4+ melee dmg dalers

icemonkey · Mar 21, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

wards are easily dealt with. Whats worse blinding someone for 3-4 energy every ten seconds or balling up in a ward to get gg'd by a meteor shower? Even if you kite thru a ward people are gonna get rocked by a meteor shower. Don't forget the weakness of wards, its a stagnant defense and everyone knows how to abuse that part of it.

besides many mix spikes take an earth and an air ele, thus giving you best of both worlds. Point here is the versatility of mix spike makes it better than other spike builds.

JR · Mar 21, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Waters

he said 6 ob spikers 2 monks as in 2 monk backline which nobody uses in tombs no more

*remenises on teh good old 2 monk backline days*

Good old 2 monk backline days? Try GvG

The Noble Savage · Mar 22, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

run 4 OF spikers and one phantom shatter spiker (Me/E) with renewel for most 5 man spike dmg

Vindexus · Mar 22, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Obisidan Flame spike is bad because it doesn't have much built in defense against degen or hexes. It's really strong against warriors though. It also doesn't do as much damage as better spikes.

Warskull · Mar 22, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

What is all this mumbo jumbo about obs flame spike balling up in wards? Remember they have 5 earth eles! They can riddle the map with wards if they want. It is not uncommon to have 3+ wards against melee up at once in an obs flame spike.

The Obs Flame spiker skillbar:
Obsidian Flame
Glyph of Energy
Utility Slot
Utility Slot
Utility Slot
Utility Slot
Anti-Interrupt (Mantra of Resolve)
Rez Sig

Each Obs flame spiker has space for 4 utility skills. This is quite a bit of flexibility. You can easily take 5 Ward Against Melee, 5 Ward Against Foes, and still have all the slots you need for other things. A single meteor shower won't do much there and IWAY warriors can't touch you with melee and aegis up all the time.

Obs flame is a simple, effective spike that is very much worth running if you are just getting into spiking. You can extremely easily organize your guild or friends even if they don't have the best PvP experience and still do pretty well. Just remember spike those IWAY trappers first and keep calling targets.